Finally , my very first japanese black pine

jriddell88

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Well I've been doing bonsai for years now and took a chance on this one. Pretty much a shot in the dark. I saw very few pictures and they weren't very good , but for the price I said what the heck, got to start somewhere. It's about 18" tall with a suprisingly decent nebari. It's just a big ball of green needles at the moment ,but I'm pretty excited to finally own one. I've been reading and watching videos of all sorts of information so I'm going to give it a go. Have been reading back in bonsai today magazines trying to soak up everything I can. Ryan neils info seems to be pretty helpful. Let me know what you pine guys think! Any helpful tips, ideas, comments are appreciated , it seems that some of you are pretty good woth pines Thanks !
 

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Adair M

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What are your goals for this tree? How big do you want? Do you want to fatten the trunk?

The answer to "what to do" is dependent on your vision what you want in the end.
 

jriddell88

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After examining it for a little while a possible front has been identified, and the potting angle will need to be changed at some point and a portion of the top will be reduced. The larger, lower branch suprisingly has a good start already with nice buds and forking. I have also noticed quite a bit of branching that needs to be eliminated it really is hard to see anything with the pictures I posted and apologize. I will eventually reduce some of the brances and needles and post new pictures. The top was chopped at some point and the next branch is the beginning of the new apex. At the angle I envision as the front it gives in some movement and taper so hopefully with time it will improve. There is plenty to work with and am pretty suprised considering the pictures I was provided with, was a little worried ,but like I said for the money I feel it was well worth it I've gotten alot less in the past for more. I will post more pictures of my goals and ideas so far to give you guys a better idea and see what you think . Great question by the way this should be anyone's first post to thread like this one, it's all about what you envision first. Then seek advice !
 

Eric Group

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Needs a couple years in the ground if you ask me... Decent starter though!
 

Adair M

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So, it's pretty much the height you want it to be?

Ok, you're changing the potting angle... The trunk is pretty straight... Are you planning on putting bends in the trunk? The sooner you do it, the easier it will bend.

Do you want to fatten the trunk?
 

sorce

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J, pretty sure you know I'm no good for pine care. But here's what I see for design.

I like the look of the base in the last picture. All this speaking of that pic.

That looks like it could be leaned right, almost 45 degrees in the pic, to better utilize a horizontal looking base, and using that root movement to give the look of a heavy bend right first, with no bending.

Use the top as a sacrfice, and your first left branch as the tree. And the right as a first branch if possible. (Pines?)

Though you may have to bend the first left branch up a bit, If this is the new leader, to better match the smoother low bend.

Nice! No reason this can't be a pretty dope tree!

Score

Sorce
 

Brian Van Fleet

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Here's what I would do:
Now:
-Identify the trunk line (brown line)
-Reduce the first left branch to 2 closest shoots, one will be a final branch, the other will be a sacrifice branch.
-Repeat this selection process for the second trunk section, where one shoot should be on the outside & become the second main branch, and the other becomes a sacrifice branch to grow wild.
-Keep the rest of the trunk for now, you need everything it has to start thickening the trunk. Next fall you can remove it.
Spring:
-From the sacrifice branches, remove all the needles except a few pairs around the buds set for next year. Then next year, let the sacrifice branches grow wild.
-Repot, changing the planting angle.
image.jpg
 

Adair M

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Brian has a good plan.
 

jriddell88

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Thanks guys was thinking of reducing significantly because of the main trunk line bein so straight. How well do black pines heal large wounds ?
 

Brian Van Fleet

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Thanks guys was thinking of reducing significantly because of the main trunk line bein so straight. How well do black pines heal large wounds ?
Just fine, or we wouldn't be making the recommendations above.
I don't foresee see any cuts that would result in a large wound at this point, unless I'm missing something...?
 

jriddell88

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I'm just curious.

I am going to attempt to airlayer the top . I understand there can be some difficulties with airlayering these apparently,but I feel pretty confident. I will post progression in the future
 

Jester217300

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Brian't path suggested using the top as a sacrifice. Layering it off would remove that as an option.

I would personally leave it on as a sacrifice for now. You can chop or layer later, but I wouldn't be concerned with it for a few years.
 

jriddell88

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Brian't path suggested using the top as a sacrifice. Layering it off would remove that as an option.

I would personally leave it on as a sacrifice for now. You can chop or layer later, but I wouldn't be concerned with it for a few years.
Precisely am in no hurry to do that
 

Adair M

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Why would you air layer this?

JBP are plentiful. It's not like you need to airlayer because stock is difficult to find.

The primary reason to air layer is there is something nice above the airlayer, and something bad below it.

I don't see anything remarkable about this tree that's worth the trouble to airlayer.

If you are really going to use the current main trunk as a sacrifice, then the way to go is to remove the side branches on the trunk above the ones you keep to make your tree. The reason is, a strong leader will demand all the energy be sent to it. Which builds girth. If there are side branches, the energy gets spread around. The tree grows needles all around, expending energy on stuff we don't want or need. So, reducing gown to one central leader builds trunk faster.
 

jriddell88

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Why not keep one bud below the air layer to grow out as a sacrafice , take the layer and have 2 trees and still have the sacrafice. I'm in no huge hurry to build this thing , it's not like I show my trees or anything , nor do I think this is some amazing piece of material. I grow trees in pots for my own viewing pleasure. It's an experiment , as I have never worked with JBP. I understand how they work. But would this layering method not work the same way?
 

Adair M

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It takes two years for JBP to layer, IF it does. Why bother?

Truely, it would be faster to grow one from seed!

Read Eric's thread "A few pine seeds six years later".

You said you wanted advice from "the pine guys". You're getting it.
 

sorce

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Nice Madden Brian.

I'm with Adair on that, unless it's a special cultivar or very interesting, layers are a waste of time. Walter Pall said it, that's where it sunk in for me.

That's a lovely sacrifice, and you really do have some movement already.

I....am glad as hell for you that they say you can use that low branch too!

I vote, pimp tree in a few.

May as well show em!

Yeah!

Sorce
 

jeanluc83

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Want more pines? Grab some seedlings from Ouwinga:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/201458950859

I'll second this recommendation. Matt's prices are reasonable and his seedlings are very healthy. I ordered a batch of 10 seedling two years ago. Between placing my order and getting the confirmation the price went down by about $5. It was an issue with ebay. I emailed him and he said he would make good on the error. When I got my order I counted 20 trees.

On the subject of seedlings, you get a head start by ordering 1 yr old seedlings. It is worth growing your own from seed if you are doing seedling cuttings or collecting your own seeds from a tree with desirable characteristics otherwise seedlings are easier.
 
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