Colander Questions

symbiotic1

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I've seen a lot on here about the use of colanders and pond baskets for developing trees and it's convinced me to use them while I repot my developing trees. I have a few questions about using them that I didn't notice answers to in other threads. Sorry for the long questions!

- Are there any trees that should NOT go in colanders/baskets because they need more moisture in the soil and a normal plastic pot or even one of the breathable fabric pots might do better?
- Would one only move a tree to a colander/basket once the desired trunk girth or development stage is reached? Normally it seems the advice is to put a tree in the ground, a larger pot, or stack in a bigger pot to get fast trunk growth. It seems like it would be difficult to provide enough space in a colander for the roots to support rapid trunk thickening for a taller or sumo tree vs putting the tree in the ground, a mixing tray or a 10/15 gal container. What has been others experience with this?
- Pond baskets are more close in size to nursery pots but since colanders are much more shallow, how would you make sure to have the right size? For example, if a tree was coming from a 5 gallon pot and the roots had colonized most of that pot, how big should the colander be for it? Most of my trees are coming from black nursery pots that are much more narrow and deep than any of the colanders. Even though the colander soil would be free draining, is there a big risk of overpotting issues if the colander was too wide for the initial rootball? I also don't want the colander to end up being too small that it dries up too quickly and the roots are damaged, especially considering the extreme, dry summer heat here in SoCal.
 

milehigh_7

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Pond baskets, strainers etc are about all I have used for the past 8 years or so. The first thing to understand is that nothing and I mean nothing will fatten the trunk like putting it in the ground. However many times I have not had that option and I have found these types of containers to be a close second. The advantage is the root development. You simply can't beat air pruned roots. What you can do with colanders and such that you can't do with regular pots or the ground is water almost constantly. Over 115 (we get over 120F fairly often) or so I water as much as 4x per day. You will never waterlog the roots. What you will do is dramatically increase the oxygen and nutrient delivery to the roots. You must think hydroponics here. Here is a list of species that I have done and had success with in baskets pretty sure there are more this is just off the top of my head:

Southern Live Oak
Cork Oak
Holly Oak
Gambel Oak
Crepe Myrtle
Vitex agnus-castus
Trident maple
Black Pine
Stone Pine
Aleppo Pine
Shimpaku
Procumbens
pomegranate
Ume
crab apple
quince
Olive
Nanking Cherry
Sweet Acacia
 

Eric Group

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Are you planning to just use them as above ground pots, or are you planting in the ground to allow roots to "escape"? If you do out them in the ground while they are IN the pond basket or colander, you can let the roots escape into the soil, allowing the tree to keep "stretching out" it's roots and grow uninhibited while keeping a nice compact root mass close to the base of the tree.

If kept above ground, the benefits of the colander is the automatic "root pruning" as the roots reach the air at the edges of the colander- instead of the typical never ending spiral of roots wrapping around inside the pot...

The trunk thickness will be more determined by the amount of top growth than the roots... The tree just needs enough roots to support the top growth, so if you out them in a large colander and let the tree grow, you should get some trunk thickening...

As for your size questions, it is a little harder to say- you don't want to lop off 90% of the roots to get a big tree into a small pot... All depends on the species of tree as to how much you can remove of the root mass to get it into a smaller pot. For instance- a... Maple can take a pretty hard cut back to their roots normally (assuming vigorous health). An Azalea or a Pine might not take the same kind of root cutback.... You also want to be careful bare rooting some species... So, depending on the kinds of trees you have, it could change the answers to the questions you asked.
 

Bunjeh

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If you live in SoCal head to the nearest Asian Market (Korean) and ask for a plastic rice colander. These are the ones with the fine holes that will keep everything 1/10" and larger inside the basket. They come in a variety of sizes from about 1 pint to 5 gallon and are generally pretty cheap. I use a one liter size and pay about $1.50 max. If you are concerned, you can put them on a tray to hold some water, probably just enough to keep them alive for about 24 hours. In addition to the list Rob provided I have also used them for pinus sylvestris, hawthorn, crab apple, pieris and some of my woody herbs. They are especially economical when you get the bug and your collection suddenly grows in to the hundreds.
 

symbiotic1

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So it sounds like pretty much everything should be ok to grow in them with maybe some extra water retentive soil for trees that like it more moist. It also sounds like if a tree has a deep root system right now and can't tolerate drastic pruning, a pond basket would be better as they are deeper. I can likely only water in the morning and evening at most because of work schedules so I can use pumice, akadama or growstones to retain more water. The two trees I would be most concerned about drying out are a hinoki and a cryptomeria "tansu" which seem to struggle just being in SoCal in the first place. Maybe with the stronger roots in a colander they'd do better.

@Eric Group I would use them just as above ground pots. Right now I can't really put anything in the ground. Though it would be an interesting idea to set one of them in a 10/15 gal container to let the roots escape on the bottom and get faster growth.

@Bunjeh I'm ahead of you on that one! I've gotten a few different sizes from my local asian market and from the japanese $1.50 store Daiso. They all seem to be rice strainers and have holes around 1/8" or smaller.

Do you usually clear all the old soil out of the roots before putting in the colander or just get most of it and let the rest wash out with watering? And lastly (for now), I see some people growing moss on top of the colander soil for what I'm guessing is better moisture retention/humidity. Is there a preferable kind to use (moss milkshake vs spores vs applying grown moss to the surface?
 

Bunjeh

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Up here in Washington State we grow moss on everything. I went TDY for a week last year and when I got back to the airport in Seattle there was moss starting to grow on my tires (I kid you not).
 

milehigh_7

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The tree on this thread was in a 15 gal can and had thick and badly circled roots.
http://bonsainut.com/index.php?threads/quercus-virginiana.4751/
After a few years work and living in a 15" pond basket I nearly have the nearly 6+" base exposed and the root mass down to 6" depth. I think one more repot and it might be ready to start working the top a bit...
 

ianb

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I use colanders a lot and love them, one thing to make sure of in our area is to make sure the colander is big enough. I've noticed because it is so hot and dry here that no roots grow in the last inch of soil next to the colander wall, both on the sides and bottom.
 

symbiotic1

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The tree on this thread was in a 15 gal can and had thick and badly circled roots.
http://bonsainut.com/index.php?threads/quercus-virginiana.4751/
After a few years work and living in a 15" pond basket I nearly have the nearly 6+" base exposed and the root mass down to 6" depth. I think one more repot and it might be ready to start working the top a bit...

Good to see an example like that. Where did you manage to find a 15" pond basket? My local hardware stores only seem to have 10" ones. I have a jbp in a 5gal container that I got from a local nursery that I want to repot to a basket. There are roots coming out the bottom of the container so I think the root mass is too deep for a colander at this point - I don't want to chop too much off since I know they are very sensitive to root work. The 10" basket I got seems too small for the task.
 

milehigh_7

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I got them at Lowe's seems they only carry 10" now... Maybe a larger pond store would have em. The 15" is ideal for root bound stuff in 5 gal containers. That's is why Vance invented this technology in the first place. ;-)
 

sorce

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Double colander is hooey IMO.

However, I will be making some This season and considered putting a half Inch or so double wall to stuff with Sphagnum to retain a bit more moisture.

And being that the last inch won't have roots......it may as well not have expensive soil components either.

Sorce
 

Anthony

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Sorce,

K just dug up a a local zanthoxylum,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zanthoxylum

Been in the growing trough 2 years in a colander. Grew to 8' in height, and was cut back tiwce. Roots had grown out and were just under 1", but there were tons of fine roots. Same results for Celtis in colanders.

The second colander is a lazyman's way of giving more soil for further growth. Presently the Caribbean pine in the double colander is heavy with expanding candles.
I will let you know next year if the fine roots survived the growing process.

Oh you need to know that all I do in K's garden is water and weed, also help repot, but don't train anything, no artistic bones.
Good Day
Anthony
 

M. Frary

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Double colander is hooey IMO.

However, I will be making some This season and considered putting a half Inch or so double wall to stuff with Sphagnum to retain a bit more moisture.

And being that the last inch won't have roots......it may as well not have expensive soil components either.

Sorce

Careful with the hooeys! But it's true.
I get awesome growth in collanders. Almost don't want to put them in bonsai pots. Almost.
 

Bunjeh

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Careful with the hooeys! But it's true.
I get awesome growth in collanders. Almost don't want to put them in bonsai pots. Almost.
If you only knew what Hooey means in Russian.
 

Bunjeh

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Slang for the male reproductive organ.
 

Giga

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Yeah I have yet to use pond baskets but in my limited yard space I may be doing just that this year
 

Nybonsai12

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I've heard opinions on both sides of the colander debate from people whose opinions I value.
I started using some last year for my own experience. Two similarly sized shimps, put one in the ground, one in a colander. Some small pines are in colanders as well. They all seem healthy and roots were coming out the colanders by the end of the season. We'll see how they all fare this year as they have now had the chance to settle in for a year. I have a dozen more colanders i'll put to use.

Ground growing is great, and although not something I'll stop doing, the mobility of something in a basket is a big advantage to me.
 
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