Light Meter Reading

HallieReusch

Sapling
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Washington, MI
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So, I decided to invest in a light meter for my three fig trees and I might be more confused than I was before. They have whole degrees on this, I know...

For my small, medium, and large trees respectively, here are the light readings for the highest points on each tree:
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Note the “x10” at the bottom. Small and medium are tiger barks. Large is a benjamina. This is their light situation for 12-14 hours per day.

Does this sound like a sane thing to be doing? It seems like it may be overkill? Like maybe I should move the light up a bit. The tallest tree is only a few inches from the light. Any help is appreciated!
 
On a scale of one to ten, who's on first? What's a reasonable goal, too much or too little?
 
9, but this is the second time you asked. We should obtain unreasonable goals too often.

Sorce
 
Perhaps I didn't make myself unclear enough. How are mere mortals supposed to know how much light is good, bad or indifferent? Lumens, watts, footcandles or whatchamacallits? I only speak compass direction of windows at some number of hours duration. I suspect most people have similar reference limitations. Your turn.:confused:
 
Sometimes when I have an idea, the meter reads zero. Back to the drawing board! If it's a really good idea, I can't see what I'm doing because I refuse to wear sunglasses. The compass turns itself.

Sorce
 
Now you're starting to make sense. Or, it may be my 4th beer...
 
Hi, that’s a good question, as my wife grows orchids and is concerned about lighting, especially during the winter. It actually depends on the species of tree you are lighting indoors.
If these are all figs, look up their light needs and move the light, or the trees closer or further away from the lights as needed. If the trees need the same amount of light, yet are different heights put something underneath the smaller figs to get them at the same level.
If they need different light, doubtful, move the ones that need less further away from the light source.
Heres a quick basic video for using a light meter to help indoors. I’m sure there are others.
cheers
DSD sends
 
:rolleyes:Not a stupid question at all. The problem is(was) many of us in bonsai are ignorant of the terminology and particulars of measuring light like people who are into photography. Post #9 helps us all. (Well, maybe @sorce will still be staring at the moon...)🌚
 
I'm chasing light myself, but in a little different way. I'm waiting on the tree service to get me a quote for way more than I ever thought I'd spend on bonsai when I got started. Promised a veggie garden too.

I don't have an actual light meter, though I wish I did. I've used an app on my phone. With a little experimentation, I've made sense of the results. I'm not sure that the figures it gives is all that exact, but they're reasonable across comparisons from the different growing areas I having in my yard. 120-190k lux when my main grow area is in full-sun around noon.. 20-25k under my grow-light. 3-5k in my soon-to-be-cleared growing spot.

If you want to equalize the numbers you have, I'd raise the smaller ones so they're about the same distance from the light as the taller one.
 
A problem with all these values is that they are in lux. That's a unit for brightness for the human eye. That's not the same as what a plant experiences. If the spectral composition doesn't change it will scale linearly but you can not compare the values for different light sources.

The light levels outside in summer are a lot higher than 10.000 lux so the trees should be able to handle this, as bwaynef writes. Heat might be a problem but that depends on your lamp.
 
When growing with LED light, I advise people to lower the lights and increase the intensity. LED can be so effective that it turns the foliage white by "burning" all the chlorophyll. When that happens, increase the distance and reduce the intensity a little. It's kind of the layman's/DIY way of finding the optimal maximum output for growth. If.. that's what you're looking for.
In my own terrarium I don't need maximum growth per say. I need them to stay healthy and alive. So I got some cheap 1 dollar plants to see how much light I'd need on average to reach that point with an even spread over the surface. It took 4 weeks to get a good overview.
 
The distribution of the emitted light is important in this. Close to an LED you have extreme intensities in a small spot. Increasing the distance a bit helps a lot.
 
How are mere mortals supposed to know how much light is good, bad or indifferent? Lumens, watts, footcandles or whatchamacallits?

It's really pretty straight-forward, actually. There are two types of chlorophyll in plants which absorb different spectra of light. They have saturation points at which more light will not be beneficial, and may in fact be harmful. A plant can adapt to varying levels of light by producing thinner or thicker epidermal layers on leaves... but they cannot create light where none exists.

Therefore you want to generate light that saturates the plant, but not much more. When using artificial lighting for growing plants, you don't really care about LUX... but rather PAR (or Photosynthetically Available Radiation). This is a measurement of how much light being generated falls within the red and blue bands of spectra that chlorophyll uses to photosynthesize. You can get a high lumen bulb with low PAR, and a high PAR bulb with relatively low lumens. (LUX is simply a measurement of how many lumens are hitting an area. Light diminishes proportionally based on the square of the distance from the light source, so you can have a bulb putting out a fixed amount of lumens, and a plant 1 meter from the bulb will be getting 4x as many LUX as a plant 2 meters from the bulb).

That's about it. There are a few other considerations when dealing with artificial lighting, including photoperiod and moving the light source to avoid shadowing... but those have been pretty much solved through scientific studies and the adaptation of motorized light racks, or indirect/diffuse lighting.

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(By the way, the second image here is a little misleading. They should have pulled out the plant icons, because I think they are a little misleading. Focus on the light circles being cast on the ground... and ignore the plants :) I'm sure you will understand, that if you have a plant 12" under a light fixture (measured from the top of the plant) the bottom of the plant gets a very different level of light. Conversely... if you have a plant in a football stadium bathing under stadium lighting, the difference in light intensity between the top and bottom of the plant is much less different. And if you are dealing with the light coming from the sun, the difference in distance between the sun and the top of a plant, and the sun and the bottom of a plant, is so small as to be irrelevant).
 
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It seems like it may be overkill? Like maybe I should move the light up a bit. The tallest tree is only a few inches from the light. Any help is appreciated!

What lights are you using? From the photos, the color spectrum looks purple, meaning that they appear to be plant grow lights (red/blue spectra).
 
Wherever you are in the northern hemisphere put it outside at noon on June 21st.

Try to get as close to that as possible at all times.

Done.
 
In general, for "part shade trees" I try to get roughly 2000 ft candles at the level of the top leaves.
foot candles is an old English system measurement. Lux is metric equivalent.
2000 ft-candles is approximately 20,000 lux, though the conversion is not exact. This is bright enough to bloom Cattleya orchids, and keep FIcus happy.
 
PAR is what is used for plants mostly but it still ignores that within the range that plants can use some frequencies are absorbed more than others (as is clear from the graph Bonsai Nut posted).
Red and blue are most important.
 
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