Eastern Red Cedars

[Rick Moquin]

Originally Posted by ghues

Hey Rick,
I understand and others will too but isn't that just a part of this hobby/art? Having to rethink/redesign a tree (maybe only slightly or drastically perhaps when you finally see the tree within) is part of the transformation of the tree over time.

Graham, I have to agree with you but, with reservation. You are absolutely correct. It is indeed a great way to learn and improve your design abilities. Nature in fact is probably one of the best teachers. That being said...

I also lay a lot of credence towards the more advanced/experience enthusiasts and avoid their pitfalls so to speak, as I am not one to reinvent the wheel. As I stated I absolutely would love to have a white birch, and of course a weeping one as well, I still do. However I am a realist, I know how frustrating it is to throw a tree out that no longer has any potential. I have had many a conversation with learned enthusiast on the subject regarding certain species etc... Some species are suitable for bonsai some are less. If in this case birch was a suitable species, wouldn't we see more of them?

Everyone is free to practice this passion at their own comfort level etc... I am just one that my youth is behind me and wish to enjoy the fruits of my labour in the future, not the distant future

I like the challenge of working with local trees, scouring the local landscape, getting to examine how they've adapted to the local environmental conditions. I think that we should do more in prompting our own local species and designing them in a style that reflects the character of the species.

I have been weening out my collection to encompass fewer species, particularly towards the one that thrive in my neck of the woods and adapt easily to life in a pot. As stated I applaud folks that think and venture outside the box. However, I will not paint a rosy picture for them. In saying that I wish 'em all the success possible in their venture.

[rockm]

"I understand and others will too but isn't that just a part of this hobby/art? Having to rethink/redesign a tree (maybe only slightly or drastically perhaps when you finally see the tree within) is part of the transformation of the tree over time."


You first have to have a "design" to re-design. This species, and a few others, typically offers very little in the way of design choices---unless you're very advanced, or very very lucky. With ERC, it's not so much seeing the tree within. It's seeing what you can wrestle into place and make due, typically limping along until the design collapses.

This is true with many "pioneer" species that are common in areas that have been recently cleared, or where not much else will grow. Species like willow, birch, black cherry, ERC and others are experts at adapting quickly, growing strongly, but can drop limbs, shut down entire portions of trunks if pruned too aggressively.

It's those kinds of traits that also have to be considered.

I love local species. I encourage their use. I have many myself. However, I try to understand WHY they do what they do and how they do it. Understanding them on a deeper level can help greatly when trying to adapt them to bonsai culture. THey're all hardly the same. ERC is far too quirky and unstable as bonsai material, IMO

[Martin Sweeney]

All,

Saw this interesting thread on Internet Bonsai Club:

http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/bo...1999-t2205.htm

Regards,
Martin

[rockm]

I too saw this thread on IBC. Great tree.

However, it should be noted this tree was dug from a garden in Eastern Europe. ERC is not native to Europe, but to North America. This plant originally came from a nursery. It's genetic origins are from cuttings taken from specimens chosen and grown specifically for landscape sale---which means it's hardly typical of what is being collected here from the wilds in the US.

[Vance Wood]

Originally Posted by rockm

I too saw this thread on IBC. Great tree.

However, it should be noted this tree was dug from a garden in Eastern Europe. ERC is not native to Europe, but to North America. This plant originally came from a nursery. It's genetic origins are from cuttings taken from specimens chosen and grown specifically for landscape sale---which means it's hardly typical of what is being collected here from the wilds in the US.

That does bring up a point: There are a number of differences between this species that vary from state to state. I have been told by someone who has grown them that those trees from Iowa are superior to those in Michigan. Junipers can be a highly variable species. No one doubts the viability of Shimpaku for its use as a bonsai. In the early bonsai books it was called Sargent's Juniper; which it is, but it is a sub-species known as Shimpaku. Any one who has worked with Sargent's Juniper as a species will tell you that it has many of the same issues some have been quoting about J. Virginianis; foliage dying and branches abandoned for no reason. This is true, in my experience, because I have had one or two that have done just that.

[rockm]

There are several cultivars of ERC used for landscaping:
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/c...ini-table.html

It should be noted these most likely are generated by cuttings from specific plants that exhibit the characteristics listed. They're not specially-developed varieties. The individual genetic traits of their parent plant makes it more desirable (or at least saleable) than its neighboring trees.

Most native "cultivars" in the landscaping trade are originally generated from cuttings from specific individual trees that show interesting characteristics, meaning the trees sold in nurseries are clones mostly beginning with a single tree, or extremely localized population.

also, note the characterstics here--"Loose foliage" "Fastigate"--which means bolt upright habit, etc., mostly don't jibe with what's needed for bonsai cultivation.

[catfish chapstick]

Originally Posted by Martin Sweeney

All,

Saw this interesting thread on Internet Bonsai Club:

http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/bo...1999-t2205.htm

Regards,
Martin

how much more proof do you need?
how could you percieve that as a waste of time??

[Brian Van Fleet]

Originally Posted by John Hill

Here is two I collected in 06. One ,as Rock said is really lanky but has back budded quite a bit. I will have to go out and take some new pics of them. I plan on working on it this year. I will let you know how it responds. Now I could be wrong on the species but I do believe they are ceders. They are some type of juniper. I collected them at an old farm house and was told it was Virginiana. I will go out when the weather lets me and get some shots of the foliage and maybe I can find our for sure.

A Friend in bonsai
John

Most people use a beer can or pack of cigarettes for scale...don't often see a TRAILER used for scale! Helluva find! That's fun!

[rockm]

"how much more proof do you need?
how could you percieve that as a waste of time??"

Um, see my earlier remarks on why this tree is an exception. It is not what the vast majority of people in the US are dealing with. It is NOT a wild collected specimen. It is a landscape specimen grown from nursery material that was selected specifically for that purpose.

Thinking this kind of tree is a typical result of working with collected, native ERC is naive.

[Vance Wood]

According to Dir, there are 22 cultivars of this species. This tells me that the species is widely viable and considering that most cultivars are found by accident not purpose it must be assumed that there is a possibility of finding a decent tree out in the wild that does not necessarily assume the traits of what we have come to identify as Red Cedar. Is it a waste of time? Maybe; but time and the wasting of it is the purview of those whose time it is to waste.